Use RAMAN RapID

I am using the RapID RAMAN and to read KRAFT paper bag together with a transparent plastic bag the system indicates a low value of r, my question is, what should the parameters be to be able to read this type of container?

  • Hi, there is a actually a good guide to develop methods with RapID and it gives standard settings for common containers. please find it attached.

    frederic

  • Hi

    I already have this guide, what I do not see in this guide are the containers such as cardboard boxes and cardboard cans too, one of the materials comes in a blue bottle as well as a black plastic bag and a transparent bag too, then at at the time of reading, the spectrum of the sample does not show what we require

  • Hi,

    Where are you located? I think it would be good for us to get on the phone with you to discuss your questions.

    We are not mentioning the containers that you mentioned in your post because they will likely not work with SORS.

    SORS spectroscopy cannot be used to analyze raw materials directly through fiber boards drums, carboard drums like the ones you are showing on the picture above. The laser light does not go through this type of containers and therefore why you are not seeing the desired spectra. I suspect that you are seeing a lot of noise plus a few cellulose peaks with some fluorescence as the spectra that you are collecting. For cardboard or fiberboard conainer, you will need to open them up and scan the material throught the primary packaging which is typically a plastic transparent liner. 

     

    For the blue bottle or blue drum that you are mentioning, SORS may or may not be usable. It depends on the raw material that you have inside. Can you be a bit more specific on this? If it is an API, there is a good likelyhood that SORS will be able to acquire the signal of your API inside that blue drum but if it is a weak scatterer, it probably will not work. When SORS does not work directly through the blue drum, you will need to open the container and scan the material through the primary transparent container. 

     

    For the black plastic, light is typically fully adsorbed by the back plastic bag, and, creates a hot point and you might see needle size hole on the bag you are trying to go through. This type of bag is typically used to actually protect the container or the material from any light source (be it ambient or artificial like the laser for SORS). For this bag, you will need to open the bag and sample through the transparent primary container inside (provided there is no additional container). 

    SORS will work with all transparent bags (to the exception of aluminum foil bag). In this case, you can use the clear bag example in the manual for the settings. 

     

    Please let me know if this makes sense. 

    My name is Frederic Prulliere. I work for Agilent Technologies as the product manager for the RapID and other SORS based products for raw material ID verification. I can be reached directly by email at frederic_prulliere@agilent.com or by phone at 00-1-864-320-8625.

     

    Cordially,

    Frederic

  •  Hi Frederic good morning, , i´m México

    I have the following problem,

    I have the following problem,

    Generating my report of the first batch, in the last box comes the following legend Overal Batch Results FAIL, as you can see, our batch was 720 samples and there were 44 failed readings,

    The question is the following, How do I modify the system so that in the result or summary of the scanned Lot it does not indicate that there was FAIL? All this was due to what I show the following

     

     

    where I see or modify the configuration so that the failed reads can be re-scanned and thus not influence the final report, as it happened to me and I show it as follows

    since the re-escan does not appear to me

     

    I appreciate the attention and support for these questions

    regards

  • Hello,

    Your question brings some additional questions for me.

    You mentioned that your rescans are failing eventhough the product is correct. Is your method robust enough. You should not see many fails in a batch if the instrument is properly operated (i.e. no user error) or if the raw material/container varies within the boundaries of the method. 

    If you are still looking to have a no fail batch after this if you have failed scans, this would require a new report.

    We have asked through our local representative your database to check on your request.

    Cordially,

    Frederic

  • We have a lot of success measuring materials through kraft paper (brown paper bags).  The challenge with this packaging is the strong fluorescence background signal from the paper.  To be successful with this packaging we often have to reduce the zero measurement conditions so the fluorescence background interference is not saturating the detector.  At the same time we need optimum signal to noise spectra from both the zero and offset measurements.  Here are some recommended measurement parameters that may help.  These settings can be changed in the Edit Settings field.

     

    Zero measurement:

    Laser Power - 100% (initial setting)

    Exposure Time – 0.1 s (initial setting, the software will probably suggest shorter exposure time dependent on fluorescence intensity)

    Min and Max measurement times: set each to 1 s 

     

    Note that the software will continue to suggest reducing exposure times to attenuate fluorescence until the shortest possible exposure time is reached.  If the zero spectrum fluorescence is still saturating the detector at this point, the software will begin suggesting attenuating laser power to some values less than 100% until the detector is no longer saturated.

     

    Offset Measurement

    Laser Power – 100%

    Exposure Time – 0.1 s (initial settings)

    Min and Max measurement times: set each to 20 s

     

    Note in general, we haven’t seen a fluorescence saturation problem on the Offset measurement like we can see in the Zero measurement (described above). 

     

    Check the SORS spectrum with these initial conditions.  If the resulting spectrum has low S/N and an intensity less than 6000 counts, increase the Offset measurement times by 5 seconds at a time to optimize the SORS spectrum.  If after 30 to 40 seconds, the resulting spectrum quality is still insufficient, then increase the Offset exposure time to 0.2 s.  We generally recommend most measurements take less than 45 seconds to accomplish, if possible.  The exposure time can be increased, generally up to 0.5 s with Offset measurement times in the 30 to 40 s range. 

     

    The spectra can be processed with either the spline, polynomial, or iterative spline background correction to give the optimum SORS spectrum.  The user can reprocess model spectra to see which of these gives more consistent results.  The Pearson correlation threshold we typically suggest is 0.95.  But we have seen customers reduce this to as low as 0.90 if required for difficult paper sack libraries / models.  Finally, we have had models successful with up to triple layer brown paper sacks.  But when the container is thicker than that, the useful signal is attenuated too much to be used.  For example, fiber drum barrels or cardboard boxes are too thick to be used with SORS.  In those cases it is necessary to open the container and measure through the clear plastic liner.

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